The Spotify Spat

Attempts to de-platform podcasts create a dangerous precedent

As always these explosions go through a typical cycle which you can count in days. Someone says or writes something that is controversial or threatens widely accepted doctrine, some outrage ensues, one or two celebrities add some oil to the fire and then things go viral with unknown consequences. And many of them are piling in, often utterly oblivious as to what it is all about, but better be seen to be on the right side of the issue than to do nothing at all. And so it was this weekend where all of a sudden Neil Young and Joni Mitchell became the improbable champions of what we used to call ‘the outrage du jour’.

It was Joe Rogan’s turn, long sought after as a target, as the man to be hanged. Never was there the right piece of rope to do that with, that is until last week. Or so it seemed. Following two interviews on his Spotify podcast, one of which was with Dr. Robert Malone, an infectious disease specialist who is known for his anti-vaccine ideas, it prompted the mass hysteria over ‘dangerous views’ and ‘anti-vaxx’ platform, all the way to causing deaths. Rogan’s interviews informed the ultimatum from notably Neil Young: ‘if you publish Rogan, I am off your platform’. With tens of millions of young listeners it was not a difficult choice for Spotify who were no doubt sorry to see Neil go, but happy to keep going with Joe. And on Monday the corporate polish was applied around some ‘user warnings’ and ‘content advisories’ as well as a sane and calm response from Rogan. On the same day Spotify’s stock bounced back a healthy 13.5%. The world gravitated back to normal.

What is more noteworthy is that at the same time the issue over anti-scientific views had rapidly morphed into a free speech debate to the point of dusting off my favourite Heinrich Heine quote about how burning books eventually leads to burning people. Former Democratic presidential candidate Marianne Williamson said it best on Twitter:

I'm triple vaxxed, but (unless they're standing for hate or calling for violence) banning someone's podcast is too much like burning a book to me. Joe Rogan should talk on his podcast about whatever he damn well pleases.

Rogan is known to bring some controversial and thought provoking thinkers onto his platform: Jordan Peterson of course, but also Tulsi Gabbard, Kanye West, Oliver Stone, Peter Schiff and in the department of sharp online journalism, Glenn Greenwald and Nick Christakis, Bari Weiss and the not too famous but great psychologist and sexologist, Christopher Ryan. If we can throw one all encompassing qualifier around these and the many others he has interviewed, it is that none of them are mainstream thinkers. They’re also neither left of right, but their ideas and commentary have the power to attract an audience from all sides which is precisely why Rogan is such a valuable brand and signed up by Spotify: he appeals across the range, he challenges conformity and in particular he appeals to the young. He does what counter-culture sixties stars used to do if you think about it. The current establishment however is far less forgiving it seems.

We should also note that whatever controversial stuff Rogan puts on his show is, in some but not all cases, often debunkable. Like Williamson I am triple-vaxxed and are leaning very close to mandating vaccines so we can get out of this Covid mess, but it is still interesting to hear some wild counterpoints. Our journey of discovery evolves. And if you like, some other well informed commentators like Robert Wright will take the time in a lengthy post on this very platform to investigate if Robert Malone is really crazy. He may be, he may not. But if Rogan had not probed into it we would never had this discussion and would have lacked a far deeper insight into what Malone’s motives are.

The knee jerk reaction to attack Rogan and the attempt to force Spotify’s hand, which they wisely rejected, is another instalment in trying to curtail open debate. Rogan probes and delivers what mainstream outlets seem no longer able to deliver, or equally plausible, new media outlets are just far more appealing to a young, free-thinking and growing online global public. Tulsi Gabbard is a sitting Democrat and wildly unpopular with her party’s establishment, but at the same time someone who does well on the left and on the right. Oliver Stone is seen as a real nutter, yet he has done yeoman’s work in addressing some of the unanswered questions in the JFK assassination case (and no he did not solve it). And scroll all of the Rogan episodes and you will find Abigail Shrier, Aubrey de Grey (if you want to defy death, another controversial topic) and even Robert Downey Jr. as podcast guests. All unique thinkers with unusual life stories, all contributing to important debates. Turfing Rogan off Spotify would send an eerie precedent to all debate and open publishing.

So if we embark on a campaign of shutting all of this down, where will it end? Think of who is active on this very platform here, Substack. Should we clean it up and suppress all form of unique thinking or should we say, hey, let us investigate, chat and debate? We’re smart enough to counter the crazies and conspiracy whackos. Unfortunately it seems that after a long week into this spat a large group is actually dense enough to try and force an end to all of this. Keep it going Joe.

Personal note: as much as we tried as an Apple family to adopt its music platform, we all gravitated back to Spotify. Its streaming, interface, speed, library, recommendations, it is one of the sleekest and probably the best music streaming platform out there. In all my enthusiasm I even bought stock in the company which, ahem, has not performed all that well recently. Their earnings are out later this week, it will be interesting to see how the results and the Rogan affair pan out for the company.